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Post by nonameneeded on Sept 13, 2022 12:57:48 GMT -8
Well you need three tasks that run at startup.
You need a workaround to have a (somewhat screwed) task bar context menu (better than no taskbar context menu at all)
You need Explorer patcher to have context menus in Windows (part of it is only experimental).
And many of those things will run in the background and will have to be reloaded at least every time you log off and back on again, if not permanently.
With the visual style you need nothing but basic themer and that's it.
Yes, you need to install uxthemepatcher but you only do that once.
The visual style also needs to be applied once if you don't want to change it.
But if you think that getting the real classic theme to work is as easy as to apply a theme + basic themer, that's ok to me.
I just couldn't disagree more.
Because obviously it's not that easy or how would you explain all the threads concerning problems with the classic theme?
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Post by OrthodoxWin32 on Sept 13, 2022 16:08:10 GMT -8
You can have your opinion, but misinforming on the classic theme is not acceptable.
--> So what? I refer you to your own sentence: Once the tasks are installed, there is no need to maintain them. It's done once and for all.
--> Ditto, once this is installed, it is installed. There is no need to do it again. And ExplorerPatcher is not experimental, it is totally usable in a production environment. Frankly, Valinet has simplified the installation of ExplorerPatcher as much as possible, just double-click on the icon.
--> This is totally wrong, nothing more than what I specified is necessary. Of course, for aesthetic reasons, it may be useful to add this or that, but it is excellently the same for the false classic theme visual style.
--> It's wrong.
--> Yes, in the same way as ExplorerPatcher or the three scheduled tasks. In addition, it is often necessary to re-patch the system, because Windows updates bring back the original system files. I don't know about the others, but I'm facing this problem. So it's still wrong.
--> I invite you to read the discussion threads. Most of them talk about aesthetic issues with the classic theme. The operational issues have been resolved for a long time. And you really have to be in bad faith to find as a pretext for a so-called "difficulty" the forum members who discuss finding solutions to improve the classic theme, which is exactly the purpose of this forum.
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Post by nonameneeded on Sept 13, 2022 16:51:38 GMT -8
I really don't want to discuss this anymore.
For some reason you despise the idea to get the classic theme as a visual style, I accept that.
But I don't really want to talk about whether it is quite cumbersome to get the real classic theme to work properly or not because it is very obvious that it's not an easy task to accomplish (that's the main reason why this forum exists in the first place).
Many or even most threads here deal with the problems that the real classic theme on Windows 10 entails, that is the purpose of this forum.
Using a visual style with Basic Themer should be a lot easier.
Discussing whether that's true or not would feel stupid to me.
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Post by OrthodoxWin32 on Sept 14, 2022 2:09:12 GMT -8
I really don't want to discuss this anymore. For some reason you despise the idea to get the classic theme as a visual style, I accept that. But I don't really want to talk about whether it is quite cumbersome to get the real classic theme to work properly or not because it is very obvious that it's not an easy task to accomplish (that's the main reason why this forum exists in the first place). Many or even most threads here deal with the problems that the real classic theme on Windows 10 entails, that is the purpose of this forum. Using a visual style with Basic Themer should be a lot easier. Discussing whether that's true or not would feel stupid to me. I was no longer discussing the subject, I was just correcting some misinformation about the classic theme. And that I see lies such as "the correction of context menus with ExplorerPatcher is experimental" or even "you have to let a lot of elements run in the background for the classic theme", I have a right of answer, all simply because it is wrong. I don't despise anything, I just don't see any advantage for the user to use a "classic theme" visual style, unless it's to have a "classic" style but a little different. By the way, I'm not a moderator, I don't intend to block threads related to "classic visual style", and even if I were a moderator, I wouldn't. For the problem with the classic theme, you're right, that's why this forum exists ; but the purpose of this forum is also to facilitate the installation of the classic theme. It is not because discussions exist that they should be deduced as "problems". Exactly, it is to SOLVE the problems. |
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Post by nonameneeded on Sept 14, 2022 10:06:30 GMT -8
I do see an advantage, it's less cumbersome and tedious to get it to work properly. It has drawbacks too (difficult to change the color etc.), yes, but if you don't care about those it would be a great additional way to get (something like) a classic theme on Windows 10.
It's hard to believe that you really don't see this, given all the threads where people talk/complain about their problems with the classic theme. It's hard to ignore. Here's what the developer of Explorer Patcher has to say about using the "Register as Shell extension" option in order to have working context menus in open/save dialogs: He also says:
But you do need them if you want context menus in open/save dialogs.
That's what I call "experimental".
Apart from that, what I also noticed with the classic theme running is that in certain situations, like when a window freezes or is unresponsive, it changes to the standard Windows 10 style and as soon as it "regains consciousness" (so to speak) it gets back its classic theme. This tells me, that there has to be something running in the background that re-enables the classic theme, otherwise the window would stay in its Windows 10-look state.
Another thing that needs to be running in the background is DWMUnextendFrame.exe. It's needed to keep the title bars from becoming transparent (and no, I didn't notice that with Basic Themer)
So you see, I was right about the things I mentioned. In addition to that there is the hassle to get the classic theme working in the first place.
So even though I highly appreciate all the efforts that have been made to get the classic theme working and all the workarounds that users here have provided and everything, the truth is that it's not really a lot of fun to use the classic theme on Windows 10 and it's getting worse with new Windows updates. Let's just face the truth.
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Post by OrthodoxWin32 on Sept 14, 2022 12:04:24 GMT -8
Because the means are sometimes complicated to understand. This is precisely why I am developing ThemeSwitcherScript, which will eventually allow you to easily install classic and basic themes, as well as custom visual styles, and above all to switch from one to the other in complete safety. But I invite you to look at the comments in DeviantArt: many people cannot install in custom visual styles. This is the problem of users with zero computer knowledge, it is difficult to make people understand, and I think as an advanced user you should know that. Fixing the context menu in dialog boxes was experimental over six months ago. There were many bugs in the beginning. Now there are no more bugs. I'm going to ask Valinet to remove the "experimental" label. As usual, you don't have to post what leads you to talk nonsense. There are NO background processes. "Fixing" windows is related to unresponsive programs, because in this case the window frame changes, and becomes hosted by a core process that loads very early in system startup, before the classic theme not be activated. The irony of your message is that what you are describing is exactly how BasicThemer2 works, which works in the background. But this is not the case with ClassicThemeTray and other similar programs, because running in the background would give the same result as BasicThemer2, i.e. the classic theme only on the window frame (i.e. only the server side, and not the client, a fundamental difference). Tools like ClassicThemeTray close the handle that allows DWM to communicate with the visual style service, which results in DWM being forced to draw the classic theme. Once the handle is closed, ClassicThemeTray also closes (if it is run on the command line, which is the case in scheduled tasks). Oh good ? And I guess this doesn't exist : github.com/Ingan121/BasicThemer2/tree/master/ExtrasMoreover, all this is marked in the topic of BasicThemer2 on THIS FORUM. Is this logical, because the classic theme like the basic theme ran in Windows 7 without DWM, so without transparency. If you are running the classic or basic theme with DWM, some programs need to be patched. It's wrong. It is still false. The most recent versions are currently no more problematic than the older ones. Besides, it's ironic that you speak the truth while you're making mistakes, because you obviously don't know what you're talking about. It's not the first time in fact, it has already happened with your insinuation that supposedly ClassicThemeTray was malicious, while the code is in fact totally clean. Personally, I'm getting tired of it. I will start working, in addition to my scripts, on new information pages and FAQs on the forum, to clarify things as much as possible. |
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Post by nonameneeded on Sept 14, 2022 12:22:38 GMT -8
Ok.
I give up.
You're the kind of person who desperately NEEDS to be right about everything, as it seems, no matter if it's true or not.
But I have neither the time nor the interest in discussing this ad nauseam, so all I say is this: You're right and I was totally wrong.
Ridiculous.
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Post by OrthodoxWin32 on Sept 14, 2022 14:01:27 GMT -8
Ok. I give up. You're the kind of person who desperately NEEDS to be right about everything, as it seems, no matter if it's true or not. But I have neither the time nor the interest in discussing this ad nauseam, so all I say is this: You're right and I was totally wrong. Ridiculous. It's not my fault if you come up with absolutely not credible arguments based on impressions denied in reality, which also reveal a lack of knowledge of certain forum topics. For many topics (ExplorerPatcher, ClassicThemeTray, BasicThemer2, anixx tutorial...), I advise you to contact the respective project developers directly, who will most likely repeat the same things, but it may seem more believable. Since what always comes up is " there are plenty of topics that show all the problems that users encounter with the classic theme", I invite you to send me the links of the topics in question. For the rest, I too give up, because when I explain in a scientific and detailed way the operation of certain software and that the interlocutor refuses these arguments, I cannot do anything more. And to answer your original question, Ingan121 has already answered this here: www.winclassic.net/thread/202/windows-classic-aero-gpu-acceleration?page=5 but on the real classic theme (under Windows 7), so I guess for the one from malvinas2 , you have to do as for the .msstyles, modify the resources. EDIT : I just discovered this : github.com/malvinas2/ClassicThemeForWindows10/issues/20 So for compatibility with Windows 11 Explorer, it's nil, while the real classic theme works almost perfectly with Windows 11 Explorer. In addition, the project developers ignore the existence of ExplorerPatcher. The problems encountered by the malvinas2 theme in Windows 11 could be solved with ExplorerPatcher, by checking exactly the same options as with the real classic theme. To the moderators: I think he'd better move all the posts from the true classic theme - false classic theme debate to another topic, because the RoyalNoir VisualStyle (by Windows 10-7 ) topic got unfairly polluted. |
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cesarpr4111
Freshman Member
Posts: 38 
OS: Windows 10
Theme: Windows 2k
RAM: 4g
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Post by cesarpr4111 on Nov 3, 2022 17:19:30 GMT -8
¡Gracias! Después de muchas horas de estrés y de arrancarme el pelo de la calva, ¡estos son mis resultados! ¡Sin BasicThemer2 y CON BasicThemer2, finalmente descubrí cómo cambiar el color de la fuente! Tuve muchos problemas con el explorador, y todavía algunos problemas con el botón de minimizar, estoy seguro de que hay algunos colores inexactos, ¡pero estoy muy orgulloso de esto!
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Windows 10-7
Sophomore Member
Posts: 233
OS: Windows 11 22H2
Theme: Aero7 - WindowsBlinds 11
RAM: 16gbs
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Post by Windows 10-7 on Nov 7, 2022 18:46:57 GMT -8
¡Gracias! Después de muchas horas de estrés y de arrancarme el pelo de la calva, ¡estos son mis resultados! ¡Sin BasicThemer2 y CON BasicThemer2, finalmente descubrí cómo cambiar el color de la fuente! Tuve muchos problemas con el explorador, y todavía algunos problemas con el botón de minimizar, estoy seguro de que hay algunos colores inexactos, ¡pero estoy muy orgulloso de esto!
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